"Men do not make monsters of yourselves" such a good piece!
I want to add that this past week I watched the 2004 phantom of the opera remake and I think the phantom is right there with frankenstein, seemingly toeing the line of the manosphere. He's isolated, deformed, and looking for companionship and just like frankenstein he commits some heinous crimes but quickly feels remorse and acquiesces. Both characters experience real discrimination the manosphere "thinks" they experience and I feel like you can't help but want both characters to find love and acceptance. As for the incels of the manosphere you kinda just hope they find a good therapist.
Thank you so much for reading, Rhon! And I totally agree with the phantom of the opera observation! You made a very important observation here. Both of the characters are also suffering from people's prejudices against their so-called deformities.
I do relate to the wishing the incels find good therapists thing, but I also find it sad that the bulk of caring about their mental healths and wellbeings fall onto us, the people they dehumanize, while the leaders they follow exploit them.
Oh, you really caught the important point here. While writing this, she was grieving her stillborn child. She wrote in her diary about having dreams of saving the baby and similar things. So yes, she was no stranger to the horrors of the feminine experience and Frankenstein very much reflects that.
This is so phenomenally written. Every part of your argument was so good that i cant just pick one bit to talk about or praise specifically. And I agree with everything you've said!
Manosphere really does feel like a darker, more distorted version of the Red Pill. Honestly, I don’t understand why communities like this form or why they gain so much popularity either. Thank you for shedding light on it - I’ll definitely look into it more deeply.
I honestly don't know either. I don't understand how anybody’s solution to loneliness could be violence. But unfortunately, that is what we have to live with, and it affects women more intensely than most people think. Good luck with your research into it. I'd love to know your thoughts at the end.
This was wonderful! As a mom of three boys, I feel an immense responsibility to raise them to be kind, responsible, and humane to all creatures. I felt ill reading several of your passages, and as a woman, understand them all too well. I just wrote an article about building community in times of loneliness--your piece here made me realize just how important supportive communities are for everyone vs.... this.... 🤮
I understand why you felt ill reading certain things, because I did too when I learned them. Unfortunately, we do not have the privilege of staying ignorant, especially considering how these ideologies are sweeping over the world. It is wonderful that you feel responsible as a parent to raise your sons to be good people. I hope you will be able to do a good job with them. I have to find your article about community. I am sure that is much too relevant about these men.
This is incredible. This is so well written and it’s so true… the sad thing about all of this is how all of these men think there are the bosses in above woman but they’re actually just victims of it too because I don’t think that they’re actually happy they seem miserable … I mean many of the rich people do drugs and shit but not good drinking and not normal people too.
I could write a whole essay about that too
I love when you wrote I love this a lot💫💕💕💕🌹🖤
I am very bad at expressing stuff and I’m very bad at writing this
I agree so much with what you said and I have a lot of thoughts about it. Maybe I will find a way to put them into words. I feel a lot but I can’t put it into words.
In itself, isn’t that kind of what men want ?? like we shouldn’t feel we shamed for feeling … women are shamed for feeling even men are shamed for feeling…. It’s a great world of meaningless and emotionless man.
Like the grey ppl in momo!
In it itself that kind of fits very well to Frankenstein
All the people that are not allowed to feel.. if we go by about the system and this man want
I think I understand what you mean, so don't beat yourself over expressing things.
You're right in observing that these men are miserable. Maybe the leaders who make money off of them are happy, but most of the members do not seem happy. I hear what you say about both men and women being shamed for feeling things, but I don't think men get punished for expressing emotions the way women do, no matter how much they claim to be forced to suppress. I mean, the entire field of psychiatry originated from the need to lock up and torture emotional women. Men have never been harmed by the structure to that extent.
I am also curious to hear what you think after finishing Frankenstein, because while it is true that in that book we see the repercussions of not being true to oneself, I felt that a hierarchy was at play; as in, the creature's feelings were not considered the way the more privileged people's were. This is why Frankenstein is so relevant here. It shows that if you are discriminated against, your humanity, which is largely presented through your feelings and empathy, get invalidated while villainizing you. That is what happened to the creature, and that has also happened to women since recorded history.
If you have more thoughts to share, please write them down! I'd love to read and have a conversation.
I’ve changed this comment because I wanna say that I will reply to this once I read the book😌❤️💫
This is very interesting. I love I can’t express how much I love this whole post and what you’re saying about it because I’ve been sensing that as well ! Can’t wait to read it. (I started reading it online now.😭 because it just will take a while till It arrives tho I might go to my library and just get a normal copy and read it🌹 like it’s been weeks now like two weeks haha
This is such a precise dismantling of incel victimhood narratives. I think there’s a strong temptation, especially with modern adaptations, to soften Frankenstein into a story about misunderstood men and cruel societies. But you’re right, that reading stops making sense once we pay attention to who actually absorbs the violence. The creature’s loneliness is real, but the way it curdles into entitlement and misogyny isn’t inevitable. It’s learned. Excellent writing!
Thank you so much, Apoorvaa! Your approval means a lot to me because you're one of the few people on this platform whose journey I follow.
I totally agree with the twisting of the story in modern adaptations. I wish more people knew about the radical sources of this story. It is so telling of male privilege that their entitlement is encouraged this way. I hope that as more and more people become aware, their victimized narrative is fully abandoned by society.
Ahhh thank you so much 😭 that genuinely means a lot coming from you. And YES exactly, the way modern readings bend over backwards to excuse entitlement drives me a little mad. Your piece was such a relief to read because it didn’t do that.
I couldn’t find any major incident of them identifying with him, but I don't really have access to those groups. The character is written in such a complex way that I think they're bound to misinterpret it. I thought it was important to set it straight.
"Men do not make monsters of yourselves" such a good piece!
I want to add that this past week I watched the 2004 phantom of the opera remake and I think the phantom is right there with frankenstein, seemingly toeing the line of the manosphere. He's isolated, deformed, and looking for companionship and just like frankenstein he commits some heinous crimes but quickly feels remorse and acquiesces. Both characters experience real discrimination the manosphere "thinks" they experience and I feel like you can't help but want both characters to find love and acceptance. As for the incels of the manosphere you kinda just hope they find a good therapist.
Thank you so much for reading, Rhon! And I totally agree with the phantom of the opera observation! You made a very important observation here. Both of the characters are also suffering from people's prejudices against their so-called deformities.
I do relate to the wishing the incels find good therapists thing, but I also find it sad that the bulk of caring about their mental healths and wellbeings fall onto us, the people they dehumanize, while the leaders they follow exploit them.
i want to write like you when i grow up
That is the best thing anybody has said to me on this platform! It means a lot coming from you. Thank you!
Being reminded that the author of the original story was a 19 year old girl, makes me think about what "dead parts" symbolize.
Oh, you really caught the important point here. While writing this, she was grieving her stillborn child. She wrote in her diary about having dreams of saving the baby and similar things. So yes, she was no stranger to the horrors of the feminine experience and Frankenstein very much reflects that.
The white boy approves
🙏
Excellent analysis ❤️
This, though, made my night for some reason:
"Here is the SPOILER ALERT for this 200 year old Book."
Haha, thank you!
I was like, I will do the decent thing and give you a heads up, but remember that you had two centuries to catch up.
This is so phenomenally written. Every part of your argument was so good that i cant just pick one bit to talk about or praise specifically. And I agree with everything you've said!
Thank you so much, Shauna! It means a lot that you checked this out and shared your thoughts! I am grateful ❤️
It was honesty so good. So thoughtful and well parsed.
Manosphere really does feel like a darker, more distorted version of the Red Pill. Honestly, I don’t understand why communities like this form or why they gain so much popularity either. Thank you for shedding light on it - I’ll definitely look into it more deeply.
I honestly don't know either. I don't understand how anybody’s solution to loneliness could be violence. But unfortunately, that is what we have to live with, and it affects women more intensely than most people think. Good luck with your research into it. I'd love to know your thoughts at the end.
Entitlement. Unmet need they believe is their right → take action to punish those who've withheld your “right” → violence.
Super efficient flow chart lol. Oh, don't forget the victim complex. I'm sure it goes somewhere in there.
This was wonderful! As a mom of three boys, I feel an immense responsibility to raise them to be kind, responsible, and humane to all creatures. I felt ill reading several of your passages, and as a woman, understand them all too well. I just wrote an article about building community in times of loneliness--your piece here made me realize just how important supportive communities are for everyone vs.... this.... 🤮
I understand why you felt ill reading certain things, because I did too when I learned them. Unfortunately, we do not have the privilege of staying ignorant, especially considering how these ideologies are sweeping over the world. It is wonderful that you feel responsible as a parent to raise your sons to be good people. I hope you will be able to do a good job with them. I have to find your article about community. I am sure that is much too relevant about these men.
This is incredible. This is so well written and it’s so true… the sad thing about all of this is how all of these men think there are the bosses in above woman but they’re actually just victims of it too because I don’t think that they’re actually happy they seem miserable … I mean many of the rich people do drugs and shit but not good drinking and not normal people too.
I could write a whole essay about that too
I love when you wrote I love this a lot💫💕💕💕🌹🖤
I am very bad at expressing stuff and I’m very bad at writing this
I agree so much with what you said and I have a lot of thoughts about it. Maybe I will find a way to put them into words. I feel a lot but I can’t put it into words.
In itself, isn’t that kind of what men want ?? like we shouldn’t feel we shamed for feeling … women are shamed for feeling even men are shamed for feeling…. It’s a great world of meaningless and emotionless man.
Like the grey ppl in momo!
In it itself that kind of fits very well to Frankenstein
All the people that are not allowed to feel.. if we go by about the system and this man want
I think I understand what you mean, so don't beat yourself over expressing things.
You're right in observing that these men are miserable. Maybe the leaders who make money off of them are happy, but most of the members do not seem happy. I hear what you say about both men and women being shamed for feeling things, but I don't think men get punished for expressing emotions the way women do, no matter how much they claim to be forced to suppress. I mean, the entire field of psychiatry originated from the need to lock up and torture emotional women. Men have never been harmed by the structure to that extent.
I am also curious to hear what you think after finishing Frankenstein, because while it is true that in that book we see the repercussions of not being true to oneself, I felt that a hierarchy was at play; as in, the creature's feelings were not considered the way the more privileged people's were. This is why Frankenstein is so relevant here. It shows that if you are discriminated against, your humanity, which is largely presented through your feelings and empathy, get invalidated while villainizing you. That is what happened to the creature, and that has also happened to women since recorded history.
If you have more thoughts to share, please write them down! I'd love to read and have a conversation.
I’ve changed this comment because I wanna say that I will reply to this once I read the book😌❤️💫
This is very interesting. I love I can’t express how much I love this whole post and what you’re saying about it because I’ve been sensing that as well ! Can’t wait to read it. (I started reading it online now.😭 because it just will take a while till It arrives tho I might go to my library and just get a normal copy and read it🌹 like it’s been weeks now like two weeks haha
Anyway, anyways I’ll come back here!!)
This is such a precise dismantling of incel victimhood narratives. I think there’s a strong temptation, especially with modern adaptations, to soften Frankenstein into a story about misunderstood men and cruel societies. But you’re right, that reading stops making sense once we pay attention to who actually absorbs the violence. The creature’s loneliness is real, but the way it curdles into entitlement and misogyny isn’t inevitable. It’s learned. Excellent writing!
Thank you so much, Apoorvaa! Your approval means a lot to me because you're one of the few people on this platform whose journey I follow.
I totally agree with the twisting of the story in modern adaptations. I wish more people knew about the radical sources of this story. It is so telling of male privilege that their entitlement is encouraged this way. I hope that as more and more people become aware, their victimized narrative is fully abandoned by society.
Ahhh thank you so much 😭 that genuinely means a lot coming from you. And YES exactly, the way modern readings bend over backwards to excuse entitlement drives me a little mad. Your piece was such a relief to read because it didn’t do that.
I'm so glad our feelings are mutual 😁
And what you said is exactly what got me exhausted and annoyed enough that I had to set the narrative straight.
this is brilliant
the manosphere has always been an emotionally deficient space so of course they think they're the helpless monsters
Thank you so much ❤️
I couldn’t find any major incident of them identifying with him, but I don't really have access to those groups. The character is written in such a complex way that I think they're bound to misinterpret it. I thought it was important to set it straight.